often ought to
explain carefully what the meaning of the words he uses is, but that he
sometimes does not understand what the meaning of this word pleasure is,
that is to say, what the idea is which is contained under this word.

III. Then he laughed, and said,--This is a capital idea, indeed, that he
who says that pleasure is the end of all things which are to be desired,
the very extreme point and limit of Good, should be ignorant of what it
is, and of what is its character. But, I replied, either Epicurus is
ignorant of what pleasure is, or else all the rest of the world are. How
so? said he.

Because all men feel that this is pleasure which moves the senses when
they receive it, and which has a certain agreeableness pervading it
throughout. What then, said he, is Epicurus ignorant of that kind of
pleasure? Not always, I replied; for sometimes he is even too well
acquainted with it, inasmuch as he declares that he is unable even to
understand where it is, or what any good is, except that which is enjoyed
by the instrumentality of meat or drink, or the pleasure of the ears, or
sensual enjoyment: is not this what he says? As if, said he, I were
ashamed of these things, or as if I were unable to explain in what sense
these things are said. I do not doubt, I replied, that you can do so
easily; nor is there any reason why you need be ashamed of arguing with a
wise man, who is the only man, as far as I know, who has ever ventured to
profess himself a wise man. For they do not think that Metrodorus himself
professed this, but only that, when he was called wise by Epicurus, he was
unwilling to reject such an expression of his goodwill. But the Seven had
this name given to them, not by themselves, but by the universal suffrage
of all nations. However, in this place, I will assume that Epicurus, by
these expressions, certainly meant to intimate the same kind of pleasure
that the rest do; for all men call that pleasing motion by which the
senses are rendered cheerful, {~GREEK SMALL LETTER ETA WITH DASIA~}{~GREEK SMALL LETTER DELTA~}{~GREEK SMALL LETTER OMICRON~}{~GREEK SMALL LETTER NU~}{~GREEK SMALL LETTER ETA WITH VARIA~} in Greek, and _voluptas_ in Latin.

What is it, then, that you ask? I will tell you, said I, and that for the
sake of learning rather than of finding fault with either you or Epicurus.
I too, said he, should be more desirous to learn of you, if you can impart
anything worth learning, than to find fault with y