rs, and even then nothing which you
approved of. If he has tried to amend anything he has made it worse. He
had no skill whatever in disputing. When he laid down the rule that
pleasure was the chief good, in the first place he was very short-sighted
in making such an assertion; and secondly, even this very doctrine was a
borrowed one; for Aristippus had said the same thing before, and better
too. You added, at last, that he was also destitute of learning.

It is quite impossible, O Triarius, I replied, for a person not to state
what he disapproves of in the theory of a man with whom he disagrees. For
what could hinder me from being an Epicurean if I approved of what
Epicurus says? especially when it would be an amusement to learn his
doctrines. Wherefore, a man is not to be blamed for reproving those who
differ from one another; but evil speaking, contumely, ill-temper,
contention, and pertinacious violence in disputing, generally appear to me
quite unworthy of philosophy.

I quite agree with you, said Torquatus; for one cannot dispute at all
without finding fault with your antagonist; but on the other hand you
cannot dispute properly if you do so with ill-temper or with pertinacity.
But, if you have no objection, I have an answer to make to these
assertions of yours. Do you suppose, said I, that I should have said what
I have said if I did not desire to hear what you had to say too? Would you
like then, says he, that I should go through the whole theory of Epicurus,
or that we should limit our present inquiry to pleasure by itself; which
is what the whole of the present dispute relates to? We will do, said I,
whichever you please. That then, said he, shall be my present course. I
will explain one matter only, being the most important one. At another
time I will discuss the question of natural philosophy; and I will prove
to you the theory of the divergence of the atoms, and of the magnitude of
the sun, and that Democritus committed many errors which were found fault
with and corrected by Epicurus. At present, I will confine myself to
pleasure; not that I am saying anything new, but still I will adduce
arguments which I feel sure that even you yourself will approve of.
Undoubtedly, said I, I will not be obstinate; and I will willingly agree
with you if you will only prove your assertions to my satisfaction. I will
prove them, said he, provided only that you are as impartial as you
profess yourself: but I would rather em