ture, and are in some degree not different from
Aristo: for he invented some strange kinds of occurrences; but these men
recognise, indeed, the principles of nature, but still they disconnect
them from the perfect and chief good; and when they put them forward, so
that there may be some selection of things, they appear to follow nature;
but when they deny that they have any influence in making life happy, they
again abandon nature.

And hitherto I have been showing how destitute Zeno was of any good reason
for abandoning the authority of previous philosophers: now let us consider
the rest of his arguments; unless, indeed, O Cato, you wish to make any
reply to what I have been saying, or unless we are getting tedious.
Neither, said he; for I wish this side of the question to be completely
argued by you; nor does your discourse seem to me to be at all tedious. I
am glad to hear it, I replied; for what can be more desirable for me than
to discuss the subject of virtue with Cato, who is the most virtuous of
men in every point? But, first of all, remark that that imposing sentiment
of yours, which brings a whole family after it, namely, that what is
honourable is the only good, and that to live honourably is the chief
good, will be shared in common with you by all who define the chief good
as consisting in virtue alone; and, as to what you say, that virtue cannot
be formed if anything except what is honourable is included in the
account, the same statement will be made by those whom I have just named.
But it appeared to me to be fairer, advancing from one common beginning,
to see where Zeno, while disputing with Polemo, from whom he had learnt
what the principles of nature were, first took his stand, and what the
original cause of the controversy was; and not to stand on their side, who
did not even allow that their own chief good was derived from nature, and
to employ the same arguments which they did, and to maintain the same
sentiments.

XVII. But I am very far from approving this conduct of yours, that when
you have proved, as you imagine, that that alone is good which is
honourable, then say again that it is necessary that beginnings should be
put forward which are suitable and adapted to nature; by a selection from
which virtue might be called into existence. For virtue ought not to have
been stated to consist in selection, so that that very thing which was
itself the chief good, was to acquire something besides itself