that these are still in the Union and does not recognize
their secession, it would not cut off the trade between those States
and the others. I do not like to have such a question raised.

Mr. BACKUS:--I am against this reconsideration. So far as I am
concerned, I do not propose, in this Conference, to recognize the
secession of the States at all. I deny the legal power of a State to
withdraw itself from the Union without the consent of the others. And
beyond this, I do not think the question is raised as the gentleman
asserts.

Mr. RUFFIN:--I think the clause is better as it is. By striking out
the words "from beyond the present limits thereof," we do not
establish any territorial limitation. And whether these States come
back or not, no question of territory is raised. But if this
reconsideration is carried, and the seceding States do not return to
the Union, they will retaliate upon us. In the event of their
continued secession we cannot get back from those States those of our
slaves who are now temporarily there. We may wish to bring back those
slaves, and some of our people may wish to carry ours there.

Mr. GRANGER:--I hope this vote will not be reconsidered. The argument
of Judge RUFFIN is conclusive.

Mr. COALTER:--This is likely to be a troublesome question any way. Why
not leave it as we have to leave many others--to the discretion of
Congress? We certainly do not wish to adopt a provision which will cut
off the traffic in slaves between the Gulf States and the others.
Nobody is in favor of that, and I am at a loss how to manage this
question. The negroes are a portion of the families of Southern men.
They are regarded as such in all the transactions of life. Those
families may at times become separated. A portion of them may now be
in the seceded States, and a portion farther North. Again, it often
happens that during one season of the year the planter, with his
family and slaves, lives upon the plantation in the Gulf States; and
at another season, removes with his family and slaves to a plantation
farther North. We do not wish to obstruct a relation or proceeding of
this kind. This is not a mere matter of dollars and cents. It is one
involving the happiness of families. The blacks themselves are
interested in it. I think it better to let the section stand as it
does, and to leave the whole matter to the discretion of Congress.

Mr. GRANGER:--I have always stood up against all the societies and
organiza