educate our upper
classes to take more interest in art, which implies, of course, to know
something about it, they might be most efficient members of the
Academy; but if you leave them, as you leave them now, to the education
which they get at Oxford and Cambridge, and give them the sort of scorn
which all the teaching there tends to give, for art and artists, the
less they have to do with an academy of art the better.

Assuming that, at present, you have not a very great number of those
persons in the country, do you not think that the mere fact of the
adoption of such a principle in any reform in the constitution of the
Academy might have the effect of turning attention more to this matter
at the Universities, and leading to the very thing which you think so
desirable?--No, I should think not. It would only at present give the
impression that the whole system was somewhat artificial, and that it
was to remain ineffective.

Notwithstanding the neglect of this matter at the Universities, do you
think, at the present moment, you could not find ten non-professional
persons, of the character you would think desirable, to add to the
Academy?--If I may be so impertinent, I may say that you as one of the
upper classes, and I as a layman in the lower classes, are tolerably
fair examples of the kind of persons who take an interest in art, and I
think both of us would do a great deal of mischief if we had much to do
with the Academy.

187. Assuming those two persons to be appointed lay members, will you
state in what way you think they would do mischief in the councils of
the Academy?--We should be disturbing elements, whereas what I should
try to secure, if I had anything to do with its arrangements, would be
entire tranquillity, a regular system of tuition in which there should
be little excitement, and little operation of popular, aristocratic, or
any other disturbing influence; none of criticism, and therefore none of
tiresome people like myself;--none of money patronage, or even of
aristocratic patronage. The whole aim of the teachers should be to
produce work which could be demonstrably shown to be good and useful,
and worthy of being bought, or used in any way; and after that the
whole question of patronage and interest should be settled. The school
should teach its art-grammar thoroughly in everything, and in every
material, and should teach it carefully; and that could be done if a
perfect system were adopted, and ab