ibition in
language better suited to your intelligence: we forbid you to hold any
conversation whatsoever with the young.

(21) See Aristot. "de Soph. El." 183 b7.

Then Socrates: To avoid all ambiguity then, or the possibility of my
doing anything else than what you are pleased to command, may I ask you
to define up to what age a human being is to be considered young?

For just so long a time (Charicles answered) as he is debarred from
sitting as a member of the Council, (22) as not having attained to the
maturity of wisdom; accordingly you will not hold converse with any one
under the age of thirty.

(22) The Boule or Senate. See W. L. Newman, "Pol. Aristot." i. 326.

Soc. In making a purchase even, I am not to ask, what is the price of
this? if the vendor is under the age of thirty?

Cha. Tut, things of that sort: but you know, Socrates, that you have
a way of asking questions, when all the while you know how the matter
stands. Let us have no questions of that sort.

Soc. Nor answers either, I suppose, if the inquiry concerns what I know,
as, for instance, where does Charicles live? or where is Critias to be
found?

Oh yes, of course, things of that kind (replied Charicles), while
Critias added: But at the same time you had better have done with your
shoemakers, carpenters, and coppersmiths. (23) These must be pretty well
trodden out at heel by this time, considering the circulation you have
given them.

(23) Cf. Plat. "Gorg." 491 A; "Symp." 221 E; Dio Chrys. "Or." 55, 560
D, 564 A.

Soc. And am I to hold away from their attendant topics also--the just,
the holy, and the like?

Most assuredly (answered Charicles), and from cowherds in particular; or
else see that you do not lessen the number of the herd yourself.

Thus the secret was out. The remark of Socrates about the cattle had
come to their ears, and they could not forgive the author of it.

Perhaps enough has been said to explain the kind of intimacy which
had subsisted between Critias and Socrates, and their relation to one
another. But I will venture to maintain that where the teacher is not
pleasing to the pupil there is no education. Now it cannot be said of
Critias and Alcibiades that they associated with Socrates because they
found him pleasing to them. And this is true of the whole period. From
the first their eyes were fixed on the headship of the state as their
final goal. During the time of their intimacy with Socrates there wer