ourself, and what you said was very true. For indeed, my dear
fellow, the design which you meditate of teaching what you do not know,
and have not taken any pains to learn, is downright insanity.

ALCIBIADES: But, Socrates, I think that the Athenians and the rest of
the Hellenes do not often advise as to the more just or unjust; for they
see no difficulty in them, and therefore they leave them, and consider
which course of action will be most expedient; for there is a difference
between justice and expediency. Many persons have done great wrong and
profited by their injustice; others have done rightly and come to no
good.

SOCRATES: Well, but granting that the just and the expedient are ever so
much opposed, you surely do not imagine that you know what is expedient
for mankind, or why a thing is expedient?

ALCIBIADES: Why not, Socrates?--But I am not going to be asked again
from whom I learned, or when I made the discovery.

SOCRATES: What a way you have! When you make a mistake which might be
refuted by a previous argument, you insist on having a new and different
refutation; the old argument is a worn-our garment which you will no
longer put on, but some one must produce another which is clean and
new. Now I shall disregard this move of yours, and shall ask over
again,--Where did you learn and how do you know the nature of the
expedient, and who is your teacher? All this I comprehend in a single
question, and now you will manifestly be in the old difficulty, and
will not be able to show that you know the expedient, either because you
learned or because you discovered it yourself. But, as I perceive
that you are dainty, and dislike the taste of a stale argument, I will
enquire no further into your knowledge of what is expedient or what is
not expedient for the Athenian people, and simply request you to say
why you do not explain whether justice and expediency are the same or
different? And if you like you may examine me as I have examined you,
or, if you would rather, you may carry on the discussion by yourself.

ALCIBIADES: But I am not certain, Socrates, whether I shall be able to
discuss the matter with you.

SOCRATES: Then imagine, my dear fellow, that I am the demus and the
ecclesia; for in the ecclesia, too, you will have to persuade men
individually.

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: And is not the same person able to persuade one individual
singly and many individuals of the things which he knows? The
gra