Willis continued: "No intercourse; that is, no social
dealings, no consulting or arranging, no ordering and obeying, no mutual
support; in short, no visible union."

Bateman still assented. "Well, that is my difficulty," said Willis; "I
can't understand how two parts can make up one visible body if they are
not visibly united; unity implies _union_."

"I don't see that at all," said Bateman; "I don't see that at all. No,
Willis, you must not expect I shall give that up to you; it is one of
our points. There is only one visible Church, and therefore the English
and Romish Churches are both parts of it."

Campbell saw clearly that Bateman had got into a difficulty, and he came
to the rescue in his own way.

"We must distinguish," he said, "the state of the case more exactly. A
kingdom may be divided, it may be distracted by parties, by dissensions,
yet be still a kingdom. That, I conceive, is the real condition of the
Church; in this way the Churches of England, Rome, and Greece are one."

"I suppose you will grant," said Willis, "that in proportion as a
rebellion is strong, so is the unity of the kingdom threatened; and if a
rebellion is successful, or if the parties in a civil war manage to
divide the power and territory between them, then forthwith, instead of
one kingdom, we have two. Ten or fifteen years since, Belgium was part
of the kingdom of the Netherlands: I suppose you would not call it part
of that kingdom now? This seems the case of the Churches of Rome and
England."

"Still, a kingdom may be in a state of decay," replied Campbell;
"consider the case of the Turkish Empire at this moment. The Union
between its separate portions is so languid, that each separate Pasha
may almost be termed a separate sovereign; still it is one kingdom."

"The Church, then, at present," said Willis, "is a kingdom tending to
dissolution?"

"Certainly it is," answered Campbell.

"And will ultimately fail?" asked Willis.

"Certainly," said Campbell; "when the end comes, according to our Lord's
saying, 'When the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the earth?'
just as in the case of the chosen people, the sceptre failed from Judah
when the Shiloh came."

"Surely the Church has failed already _before_ the end," said Willis,
"according to the view you take of failing. How _can_ any separation be
more complete than exists at present between Rome, Greece, and
England?"

"They might excommunicate each other," said Cam