interests. But suppose, says Socrates, that the
ruler or stronger makes a mistake--then the interest of the stronger is
not his interest. Thrasymachus is saved from this speedy downfall by his
disciple Cleitophon, who introduces the word 'thinks;'--not the actual
interest of the ruler, but what he thinks or what seems to be his
interest, is justice. The contradiction is escaped by the unmeaning
evasion: for though his real and apparent interests may differ, what the
ruler thinks to be his interest will always remain what he thinks to be
his interest.

Of course this was not the original assertion, nor is the new
interpretation accepted by Thrasymachus himself. But Socrates is not
disposed to quarrel about words, if, as he significantly insinuates,
his adversary has changed his mind. In what follows Thrasymachus does
in fact withdraw his admission that the ruler may make a mistake, for he
affirms that the ruler as a ruler is infallible. Socrates is quite ready
to accept the new position, which he equally turns against Thrasymachus
by the help of the analogy of the arts. Every art or science has an
interest, but this interest is to be distinguished from the accidental
interest of the artist, and is only concerned with the good of the
things or persons which come under the art. And justice has an interest
which is the interest not of the ruler or judge, but of those who come
under his sway.

Thrasymachus is on the brink of the inevitable conclusion, when he makes
a bold diversion. 'Tell me, Socrates,' he says, 'have you a nurse?' What
a question! Why do you ask? 'Because, if you have, she neglects you and
lets you go about drivelling, and has not even taught you to know the
shepherd from the sheep. For you fancy that shepherds and rulers never
think of their own interest, but only of their sheep or subjects,
whereas the truth is that they fatten them for their use, sheep and
subjects alike. And experience proves that in every relation of life
the just man is the loser and the unjust the gainer, especially where
injustice is on the grand scale, which is quite another thing from the
petty rogueries of swindlers and burglars and robbers of temples. The
language of men proves this--our 'gracious' and 'blessed' tyrant and the
like--all which tends to show (1) that justice is the interest of the
stronger; and (2) that injustice is more profitable and also stronger
than justice.'

Thrasymachus, who is better at a speech than