him; and from what I know of him, I am
pretty certain that he will not at all be willing to comply with your
advice."

"What then," said he, "is not Evenus a philosopher?"

"To me he seems to be so," said Simmias.

"Then he will be willing," rejoined Socrates, "and so will everyone who
worthily engages in this study; perhaps indeed he will not commit
violence on himself, for that they say is not allowable." And as he said
this he let down his leg from the bed on the ground, and in this posture
continued during the remainder of the discussion.

Cebes then asked him: "What do you mean, Socrates, by saying that it is
not lawful to commit violence on one's self, but that a philosopher
should be willing to follow one who is dying?"

"What, Cebes, have not you and Simmias, who have conversed familiarly
with Philolaus[40] on this subject, heard?"

[Footnote 40: A Pythagorean of Crotona.]

"Nothing very clearly, Socrates."

"I however speak only from hearsay; what then I have heard I have no
scruple in telling. And perhaps it is most becoming for one who is about
to travel there, to inquire and speculate about the journey thither,
what kind we think it is. What else can one do in the interval before
sunset?"

"Why, then, Socrates, do they say that it is not allowable to kill one's
self? for I, as you asked just now, have heard both Philolaus, when he
lived with us, and several others say that it was not right to do this;
but I never heard anything clear upon the subject from anyone."

"Then you should consider it attentively," said Socrates, "for perhaps
you may hear: probably, however, it will appear wonderful to you, if
this alone of all other things is an universal truth,[41] and it never
happens to a man, as is the case in all other things, that at some times
and to some persons only it is better to die than to live; yet that
these men for whom it is better to die--this probably will appear
wonderful to you--may not, without impiety, do this good to themselves,
but must await another benefactor."

[Footnote 41: Namely, "that it is better to die than live."]

Then Cebes, gently smiling, said, speaking in his own dialect, "Jove be
witness."

"And indeed," said Socrates, "it would appear to be unreasonable, yet
still perhaps it has some reason on its side. The maxim indeed given on
this subject in the mystical doctrines,[42] that we men are in a kind of
prison, and that we ought not to free ourselves from it an