mena. As for my opinion, Tubero, for I always tell you just what I
think, I hardly agree in these subjects with that friend of mine,
since, respecting things of which we can scarcely form a conjecture as
to their character, he is as positive as if he had seen them with his
own eyes and felt them with his own hands. And I cannot but the more
admire the wisdom of Socrates, who discarded all anxiety respecting
things of this kind, and affirmed that these inquiries concerning the
secrets of nature were either above the efforts of human reason, or
were absolutely of no consequence at all to human life.

But, then, my Africanus, replied Tubero, of what credit is the
tradition which states that Socrates rejected all these physical
investigations, and confined his whole attention to men and manners?
For, with respect to him what better authority can we cite than Plato?
in many passages of whose works Socrates speaks in such a manner that
even when he is discussing morals, and virtues, and even public affairs
and politics, he endeavors to interweave, after the fashion of
Pythagoras, the doctrines of arithmetic, geometry, and harmonic
proportions with them.

That is true, replied Scipio; but you are aware, I believe, that Plato,
after the death of Socrates, was induced to visit Egypt by his love of
science, and that after that he proceeded to Italy and Sicily, from his
desire of understanding the Pythagorean dogmas; that he conversed much
with Archytas of Tarentum and Timaeus of Locris; that he collected the
works of Philolaus; and that, finding in these places the renown of
Pythagoras flourishing, he addicted himself exceedingly to the
disciples of Pythagoras, and their studies; therefore, as he loved
Socrates with his whole heart, and wished to attribute all great
discoveries to him, he interwove the Socratic elegance and subtlety of
eloquence with somewhat of the obscurity of Pythagoras, and with that
notorious gravity of his diversified arts.

XI. When Scipio had spoken thus, he suddenly saw Lucius Furius
approaching, and saluting him, and embracing him most affectionately,
he gave him a seat on his own couch. And as soon as Publius Rutilius,
the worthy reporter of the conference to us, had arrived, when we had
saluted him, he placed him by the side of Tubero. Then said Furius,
What is it that you are about? Has our entrance at all interrupted any
conversation of yours? By no means, said Scipio, for you yourself too
are in