cattering this information, which, as I now believe,
was scattered for the removal of Dr. Cronin."

"Did Alexander Sullivan use the words that Dr. Cronin ought to be
removed," the witness was asked.

"I would not swear that the words were used exactly as you state them,
but that was my impression at the time."

"Did you get the impression that that was what he meant."

"Certainly I did."

"Could he at that time or any time later have spoken to others in the
same way."

"Most undoubtedly--to hundreds."

"Tim Crean had told me things that Alexander Sullivan had said," went on
the witness, "and among them that this man was a traitor. The word
traitor to an Irishman's visor calls up a terrible vengeful feeling. It
does in me, the Irishmen know what informers are and do not feel
leniently toward them. The impression that I got from Mr. Sullivan's
talk was that this man should be removed from our ranks in some way or
another; that he was a menace to the cause and to the success of the
objects which we were trying to accomplish. I must say that at that time
and since, Mr. Sullivan was not alone in the opinion as to the removal
of men of that description--that is, the removal of them from our ranks,
not by death, but that we should get them out of our organization. There
was nothing more laudable, considering the actions of Le Caron, who as
is now proven to have been Mr. Sullivan's friend, according to the
evidence now before you. Le Caron was introduced to me on the evening of
that conversation by Mr. Sullivan as a man worthy of our confidence and
of the highest character, and coming from such a source, it being
understood that Sullivan occupied a high office in the order, and
considering the confidence with which he was looked up to by the Irish
people at that time, myself, being nothing but a plebian, I could not
but believe what he said."

"Did you believe that Dr. Cronin was a traitor."

"Yes; Mr. Sullivan gave me that information; that was his idea. He did
not give me any proof, but considering his position, I could not do
otherwise than take his ipse dixit for it. I will say, however, that up
to the recent revelations I certainly had no idea at all that Mr.
Sullivan could have been the man he is now represented to be. I must say
in justice to myself I had no idea that he could have come as near being
an accessory to this diabolical 'removal,' as he is now represented to
be by the circumstantial evidence before