Utopia _for themselves_ but certainly not for the slaves who
out-numbered them. Not that they weren't kindly and good men. A man of
Jefferson's caliber, I am sure, would have done anything in the world
for those darkies of his--except get off their backs. Except to grant
them the liberty and the right to pursue happiness that he demanded for
himself. He was blinded by self interest, and the interests of his
class."

"Perhaps they didn't want liberty," Isobel mused. "Slavery isn't
necessarily an unhappy life."

"I never thought it was. And I'm the first to admit that at a certain
stage in the evolution of society, it was absolutely necessary. If
society was to progress, then there had to be a class that was freed
from daily drudgery of the type forced on primitive man if he was to
survive. They needed the leisure time to study, to develop, to invent.
With the products of their studies, they were able to advance all
society. However, so long as slavery is maintained, be it necessary or
not, you have no Utopia. There is no Utopia so long as one man denies
another his liberty be it under chattel slavery, feudalism, or
whatever."

Isobel said dryly, "I see why you say your Utopia will never be reached,
that it continually recedes."

He laughed, ruefully. "Don't misunderstand. I think that particular goal
can and will be reached. My point was that by the time we reach it,
there will be a new goal."

* * * * *

The girl, finished with her main dish, sat back in her chair, and looked
at him from the side of her eyes, as though wondering whether or not he
could take what she was about to say in the right way. She said, slowly,
"You know, with possibly a few exceptions, you can't enslave a man if he
doesn't want to be a slave. For instance, the white man was never able
to enslave the Amerind; he died before he would become a slave. The
majority of Jefferson's slaves _wanted to be slaves_. If there were
those among them that had the ability to revolt against slave
psychology, a Jefferson would quickly promote such. A valuable human
being will be treated in a manner proportionate to his value. A wise,
competent, trustworthy slave became the major domo of the master's
estate--with privileges and authority actually greater than that of free
employees of the master."

Crawford thought about that for a moment. "I'll take that," he said.
"What's the point you're trying to make?"

"I, too, was s