Government that
caused us to make our proposals."

Lord Milner: "That correspondence was at the beginning of the
negotiations."

Commander-in-Chief de Wet: "If we had been obliged to make a new
proposal in April, we would not have been able to make one so fair, and
so much to the advantage of the British Government, as our present one,
for, not having consulted the nation, we would have been compelled to
insist on entire independence."

Lord Milner: "I must remind you of what has taken place; not with the
object of putting you in the wrong, but in order to make the position
clear, for there are some points about it which are not very clear. You
came and made a proposal. The British Government gave you a distinct
answer--they refused to accept it. Their answer was perfectly outspoken,
and perfectly intelligible. At the same time they said, 'We are anxious
for peace; will you make other proposals?' You then said, 'No! we have
no power to do so; we must first consult the nation.' We admitted that
argument. Then you said, 'Let the British Government make proposals.'
The British Government did so, and they are fully entitled to an answer.
In what position do you think you are placing Lord Kitchener and myself?
You come back with a totally fresh proposal, and do not say anything
about ours. This is not fair treatment to the British Government, and we
are not bound to take your proposal into consideration."

Judge Hertzog: "I have endeavoured to show that our reply really cannot
be taken as ignoring the proposal of the British Government. The great
question in the correspondence in April between us and the British
Government was the question of independence; and now, after having
consulted the nation, we come here and say that we are prepared to
sacrifice in some degree our independence, and we indicate how far we
will give it up. And, as General Smuts has said, that is the basis which
we have laid down in our present proposal."

Lord Milner: "You say that you give up your independence as regards
foreign relations."

Judge Hertzog: "Yes. But then you must understand that this is only a
general principle, which we treat in detail later on."

General Smuts: "The independence is given up both in regard to our
foreign relations and in regard to interior administration, which will
be placed under the supervision of the British Government. So that the
effect of these two articles is, that the independence is sacrificed,
and