he present
state of Newgate such a plan as I have in my mind respecting the proper
management of women prisoners cannot be put into execution. We must have
turnkeys and a governor to refer to; but I should like to have a prison
which had nothing to do with men, except those who attended them
spiritually or medically."

"Do you believe men to be as much excluded from all communication with
the women now as is possible in the present state of Newgate?"

"Yes, I think very nearly so. My idea with regard to the employment of
women is, that it should be a regular thing undertaken by Government,
considering (though, perhaps, I am not the person to speak of that) that
there are so many to provide for; there is the army and navy, and so
many things to provide for them; why should not the Government make use
of the prisoners? But I consider it of the utmost importance, and quite
indispensable for the conduct of these institutions, that the prisoners
should have part of the earnings of their work for their own use; a part
they might be allowed to take for tea, sugar, etc., but a part should be
laid by that there maybe some provision for them when they leave the
prison, without their returning to their immoral practices. This is the
case, I believe, in all prisons well regulated, both on the continent of
Europe and America. In a prison under proper regulation, where they had
very little communication with their friends, where they were
sufficiently well fed and clothed, constantly employed and instructed,
and taken care of by women, I have not the least doubt that wonders
would be performed, and that many of those, now the most profligate and
worst of characters, would turn out valuable members of society. After
having said what I have respecting the care of women, I will just add
that I believe that if there were a prison fitted up for us, which we
might visit as inspectors, if employment were found for our women,
little or no communication with the city, and room given to class them,
with female servants only, if there were a thousand of the most unruly
women they would be in excellent order in one week; of that I have not
the least doubt."

The natural consequence of this evidence was increased publicity and
increased usefulness; the first to Mrs. Fry's sorrow, and the second to
her great joy. Much as she desired to work in secret, it was not
possible; nor, all things considered, was it for the best that she
should do so. Th